Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 17

04/11/2006 01:30 PM House TRANSPORTATION


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01:35:15 PM Start
01:38:09 PM HCR38
02:34:46 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HCR 38 FAST FERRIES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Public Testimony
HCR 38-FAST FERRIES                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR ELKINS announced  that the only order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE CONCURRENT  RESOLUTION NO. 38, Urging  the Department of                                                               
Transportation  and Public  Facilities to  use the  Alaska marine                                                               
highway  system fast  ferries efficiently  by deploying  the fast                                                               
ferries  in   northern  Lynn  Canal  and   Prince  William  Sound                                                               
beginning in  the summer of  2006, and to provide  data regularly                                                               
to  the  affected  communities   to  enable  the  communities  to                                                               
evaluate the service effectively.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER BAXTER,  Staff to  Representative Jim  Elkins, presented                                                               
HCR 38  on behalf  of Representative Elkins,  Sponsor.   She said                                                               
HCR  38   urges  the  Department   of  Transportation   &  Public                                                               
Facilities (DOT) to  use the Alaska Marine  Highway System (AMHS)                                                               
fast  ferries  efficiently by  deploying  them  in northern  Lynn                                                               
Canal and Prince  William Sound beginning in the  summer of 2006.                                                               
It also requests  an evaluation of the services.   The resolution                                                               
was borne  out of frustrations  from the coastal  communities who                                                               
have  been promised  reliable scheduling  and  deployment of  the                                                               
fast ferries.   She said that in late 2004,  a marketing group of                                                               
residents  from Cordova,  Whittier,  Valdez,  and Anchorage  held                                                               
meetings   with  Alaska   Airlines,  the   railroad,  and   other                                                               
businesses to develop strategies  to successfully incorporate the                                                               
new  fast ferry  transportation  system into  the Prince  William                                                               
Sound area.  The group was told  at the last minute that the M.V.                                                               
Chenega  would not  be operating  because labor  negotiations had                                                               
not  been concluded  in time.   Earlier  this winter,  again with                                                               
little warning, the M.V. Fairweather  was pulled from her regular                                                               
schedule  between  Juneau, Haines,  Skagway  and  Sitka, and  was                                                               
deployed  on  experimental  runs in  southern  Southeast  Alaska.                                                               
Those  runs had  very few  passengers and  generated very  little                                                               
revenue, which was no surprise  to coastal communities, but those                                                               
communities were  never consulted  prior to the  schedule change.                                                               
Because of  the State of  Alaska and  the DOT deficiency  in long                                                               
term planning,  coastal communities who previously  relied on the                                                               
ferries realized  that it may no  longer be an option.   She said                                                               
there are  no contingency  plans, and  the fleet  is aging.   She                                                               
said  HCR 38  urges  the  administration to  revert  back to  its                                                               
original plan  and operate the  M.V. Fairweather on  a year-round                                                               
basis  in northern  Lynn Canal  and  the M.V.  Chenega in  Prince                                                               
William  Sound, so  the state  may evaluate  the true  demand and                                                               
economic feasibility of these vessels.   The resolution also asks                                                               
for a two-year schedule with updates to communities.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:38:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TIM  JOYCE,  Mayor,  City  of   Cordova,  said  he  provided  the                                                               
committee with a resolution and  letter from the City of Cordova.                                                               
He  said there  are more  letters and  resolutions regarding  the                                                               
fast ferry system.   He expressed his strong support  for HCR 38,                                                               
and said  it addresses many  weaknesses of  the AMHS in  the past                                                               
year.    He  noted  that   a  business  would  fail  if  operated                                                               
similarly.   All the businesses in  Cordova rely on the  ferry to                                                               
some degree and  have asked him if the Chenega  will be operating                                                               
in Prince William Sound this  year.  Those people were guaranteed                                                               
that  the Chenega  would operate.    The ferry  schedule must  be                                                               
known a year  in advance in order to plan  business travel and to                                                               
schedule  events.     A  two-year schedule  is  not difficult  to                                                               
provide,  and such  dependability  will  increase ridership  over                                                               
time, he stated.   He said the Chenega was  designed and built to                                                               
be used  in Prince  William Sound,  and why  it was  moved defies                                                               
logic.  He  said HCR 38 will  correct most of the  errors made by                                                               
the AMHS in Prince William Sound over the last year.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:41:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA LEWIS  said she has  never supported using a  fast ferry,                                                               
and  it has  been  proven  that it  doesn't  work  in Lynn  Canal                                                               
because it breaks  down.  She said the Chenega  should be left in                                                               
Prince  William Sound.    If the  two fast  ferries  are used,  a                                                               
handicapped van is needed, she noted.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:43:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAREN HESS, President, Haines Chamber  of Commerce, urged support                                                               
for HCR 38.  She said her written comments have been submitted.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:45:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JUNE  HAAS, Haines  Chamber  of Commerce,  said  HCR 38  includes                                                               
Sitka, Alaska.   The original route was in  protected waters, she                                                               
said.  The idea of basing  the ferry at Portage Cove sounded like                                                               
a good  idea, she  said.   "But when  I saw  Sitka on  there, the                                                               
whole  basis for  the  fast  ferry was  short  distance and  high                                                               
volume.   The run  from town,  if they base  it at  Portage Cove,                                                               
would be  up to Skagway  and back, and  down to Cascade  Point in                                                               
Berners Bay, which  would still be protected from  the wind quite                                                               
a bit, but when it goes to  Sitka or anything like that, and then                                                               
at  Cascade  Point, of  course,  they'd  need private  enterprise                                                               
busses and  stuff, but that's  no problem.   But when they  go to                                                               
Sitka,  they're going  a  long  distance.   It's  beating up  our                                                               
ships," she  said.  Sitka  needs a terminal  on the east  side of                                                               
[Baranof Island],  and she said the  fast ferry needs to  be used                                                               
in Haines and Berners Bay only.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS said  the  advisory board  for the  Alaska                                                               
Marine Highway System added Sitka to the resolution.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:47:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL CATSI,  Skagway City  Council, said  he supports  HCR 38.                                                               
He said  he helped draft  the resolution, and it  was unanimously                                                               
passed  by  the  city  council.    The  fast  ferries  have  been                                                               
successful  in upper  Lynn Canal  and would  be viable  in Prince                                                               
William Sound,  given the chance.   The fast ferries  brought the                                                               
                                 st                                                                                             
coastal  communities into  the 21   Century and  have provided  a                                                               
level  of  service  and  convenience  rarely  seen.    They  have                                                               
diversified the  range of transportation  services.   The vessels                                                               
are  not perfect,  but they  have demonstrated  that they  are in                                                               
demand.   Given  the chance  with a  regular schedule,  they will                                                               
demonstrate their  true demand, economic viability,  and value to                                                               
the system.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:50:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TIM BOURCY, Mayor, City of Skagway,  said there has been a lot of                                                               
unrealistic rhetoric regarding the fast  ferries.  He stated that                                                               
HCR  38  would give  his  community  the  opportunity to  have  a                                                               
marketable schedule and  then prove or disprove the  value of the                                                               
ferries in Lynn Canal and Prince William Sound.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JAN WHETMORE,  Chair, Skagway Marine  Access Committee,  said she                                                               
has been  in business in  Skagway for many  years.  She  said she                                                               
supports HCR 38  and is a strong supporter of  fast ferries.  She                                                               
noted that  fast ferries  have proven to  been valuable  for Lynn                                                               
Canal.   She recommended  using Cascade  Point as  a destination,                                                               
rather than  Auke Bay or  Katzehin.  A  schedule needs to  be set                                                               
two years  ahead of time  for the benefit  of business users.   A                                                               
road to Juneau may be  litigated, she stated.  "They're proposing                                                               
unmanned ferry  terminals in Skagway, Haines,  and Katzehin, and,                                                               
of course, winds are extremely high  in Lynn Canal, so that whole                                                               
concept may  need to  be revisited."   She  urged the  ferries to                                                               
operate out of Cascade Point for fuel cost savings.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:53:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NANCY PETERSON, Assistant City Manager,  City of Valdez, said the                                                               
city supports HCR 38, especially  with coordination of a two-year                                                               
schedule, marketing, and long range planning.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CLAY  KOPLIN,  Cordova Chamber  of  Commerce,  said the  business                                                               
community is strongly  in favor of HCR 38.   He noted that Prince                                                               
William Sound is  a good place for fast ferries  because the bulk                                                               
of the population of Alaska is  connected by a road system to the                                                               
Whittier  and Valdez  portals  to Prince  William  Sound, and  it                                                               
creates a lot  of business opportunities in  Cordova.  Businesses                                                               
have  invested in  growth because  of the  fast ferries,  and the                                                               
changes  in  the  schedules  have been  detrimental.    The  fast                                                               
ferries allow for weekend visits, he noted.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:55:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATHIE WASSERMAN, Alaska Municipal  League, said the fast ferries                                                               
are a  necessary tool  for the communities  she represents.   She                                                               
said Southeast  Alaska has static economic  development and needs                                                               
all the help it can get.   The fast ferries have been a necessary                                                               
tool.   She said the  schedules must  be more dependable  to keep                                                               
the fast ferries running for residents and tourists, she said.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:57:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN   asked  for   the  economic   impacts  to                                                               
communities with the loss of the vessels.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.   WASSERMAN  said   Southeast  Conference   is  an   economic                                                               
development group and would likely  have those figures.  She also                                                               
suggested the McDowell Group studies.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN said  he would  like to  weigh the  fiscal                                                               
note with the economic impacts of not passing the resolution.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. WASSERMAN said she will work on it.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  ELKINS  asked  about   taking  money  from  the  Juneau                                                               
highways and  back to  the ferries where  is was  appropriated in                                                               
the first place.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. WASSERMAN said  she represents all of  the communities across                                                               
the state, and there might not be agreement.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:59:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DEAN WILLIAMS  said he is  88 years  old and a  lifelong Alaskan.                                                               
He stressed  the importance of a  pre-set schedule.  He  has been                                                               
in the  airline business and  stressed the importance  of getting                                                               
the schedule  published.   He said travel  agents are  working on                                                               
the coming summer,  and the schedules should be up  and going.  A                                                               
two-year   schedule  would   give  a   chance  to   prove  [ferry                                                               
ridership].   A ferry has a  sales value, but a  road doesn't, in                                                               
case a change needs to be made.   You can't sell a road, he said,                                                               
a ferry is a much sounder  investment.  He is knowledgeable about                                                               
avalanches, and  the Lynn Canal  situation "scares me  to death."                                                               
He won't  use a  road in Lynn  Canal in the  winter, and  he much                                                               
prefers a  ferry, which  is safer.   He mentioned  the idea  of a                                                               
school  bus  loaded with  children  heading  to basketball  games                                                               
getting hit by  a fatal avalanche.   He was on the  dock when the                                                               
first Malaspina  ferry came to Juneau.   He said a  Taku wind was                                                               
blowing  and  the   pilot  dropped  the  anchor   off  the  dock,                                                               
effectively  bringing  the boat  in.    He said  Governor  Hickel                                                               
always supported good transportation.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:03:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MERRY  ELLEFSON noted  that fast  ferries are  likely to  succeed                                                               
when placed in  high-volume areas, such as Lynn  Canal and Prince                                                               
William Sound.   Passengers  prefer this service,  and it  is her                                                               
understanding that in operating  only six months, the Fairweather                                                               
carried the third highest number  of passengers in the AMHS fleet                                                               
for the  entire year  of 2004  or 2005.   If given  the continued                                                               
chance to  ply the Southeast  waters, the Fairweather  will prove                                                               
to be a vital link in  the quest to efficiently access Juneau, if                                                               
schedules  and   rates  are  properly   managed.     She  doesn't                                                               
understand why the Chenega was pulled  out of the sound and taken                                                               
to  a  low-volume,  log-infested  Juneau-Ketchikan  route.    The                                                               
Fairweather and  Chenega, on this  run, were doomed  for failure.                                                               
She asked that  the fast ferries be given a  chance to answer the                                                               
transportation challenges in the region.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:05:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANET  KUSSART said  she has  family coming  this summer  and has                                                               
always enjoyed  taking visitors on the  ferries.  She said  it is                                                               
important  to  keep  the  terminal  in  Auk  Bay;  it  is  public                                                               
transportation, and people  without a car need that  access.  The                                                               
farther  from  town,  the  more  difficult to  use.    People  in                                                               
Southeast Alaska need to get up  Lynn Canal in one day, she said.                                                               
She said she has been spoiled by the fast ferry in Lynn Canal.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:07:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR ELKINS said he and  Representative Thomas are members of                                                               
a coastal  caucus to improve  the ferry system.   He said  HCR 38                                                               
will not move today because Co-Chair Gatto is absent.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  said he received this  resolution from the                                                               
communities  in   his  district,  and  "I   fully  support  their                                                               
concerns."   He said  he took it  to MTAB  [Marine Transportation                                                               
Advisory Board] and the Southeast  Conference, and there has been                                                               
no  negative feedback.   Cordova  and the  other communities  are                                                               
hurting, and  they need all the  help they can get.   His concern                                                               
is about Juneau access because a  road won't be built for several                                                               
years, if at all.   Without the fast ferries, a  bill to move the                                                               
legislative body [out  of Juneau] will be "looking  better."  The                                                               
fiscal note is  high, but if people know  the schedule [ridership                                                               
will increase].   He hopes  the administration will listen.   The                                                               
schedule  should  allow Juneau  residents  to  go to  Haines  and                                                               
Skagway  on a  weekend,  and vice  versa.   He  said people  from                                                               
Haines  and Skagway  like  to  come to  Juneau  for  a movie  and                                                               
Chinese food.   He said he will read the  resolution on the floor                                                               
if he has to.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:11:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBIN TAYLOR, Deputy Commissioner,  Alaska Marine Highway System,                                                               
Department of  Transportation & Public  Facilities (DOT)  said he                                                               
is   supportive  of   Representative  Thomas's   comments.     He                                                               
appreciates the support  and input the "Island  Caucus" has given                                                               
to him.   He  noted the strong  interest within  the legislature,                                                               
which  is good  because solutions  are  not as  simple as  people                                                               
think.   There  is a  domino  effect in  the system  when a  boat                                                               
fails.    He said  it  is  the  first  administration to  have  a                                                               
governor  that cares  enough  about  the system  to  ride on  the                                                               
ferries, but  sometimes he makes decisions  without necessary and                                                               
important public input.  "We  operate a system, most people don't                                                               
realize this, that publishes a  schedule and begins its operation                                                               
each  year,  October 1."    He  said  AMHS is  currently  selling                                                               
tickets under a schedule that "is  going to be adhered to barring                                                               
mechanical breakdowns."  The only  reason Juneau doesn't have the                                                               
Fairweather is because  "we just yanked all  four reduction gears                                                               
out of  that boat,  stuck them  on the  Columbia, and  they're on                                                               
their way to  be rebuilt in Seattle."   He said he  is hopeful it                                                               
will  be back  in  operation  in early  May.    It has  disrupted                                                               
transportation  in Lynn  Canal,  and his  office  has been  under                                                               
pressure regarding  shipping the Chenega  "up to Mayor  Tim Joyce                                                               
and the  good folks of Cordova."   More towns and  people will be                                                               
impacted  "down here,"  but he  did  not yield  to that  pressure                                                               
because of a commitment to Prince William Sound.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TAYLOR  said the  AMHS  has  done significant  marketing  on                                                               
events in that region, and he is  proud of what he thinks it will                                                               
accomplish in Prince  William Sound this summer.  He  said HCR 38                                                               
addresses  winter operations,  and  he  believes the  Fairweather                                                               
probably could operate  in Lynn Canal in the winter,  "as long as                                                               
you've got Southeast  weather," but when the wind  blows from the                                                               
north,  the boat  is not  able to  operate.   He said  that is  a                                                               
problem for  shipping fresh halibut  from Sitka or beer  from the                                                               
local brewery.  Winter weather is going  to be touch and go.  "We                                                               
will, if  the resolution and  this funding level passes,  we will                                                               
operate that  boat during  those months  and at  that time."   He                                                               
said  that will  give  the administration  evidence,  or not,  of                                                               
their viability.   He said  he is selling  tickets on a  boat for                                                               
Cordova, and it's  going to be there the entire  summer.  He said                                                               
there  are  difficulties with  the  LeConte  regarding the  Coast                                                               
Guard,   and   mechanical   breakdowns,  weather,   and   federal                                                               
regulators  cause unforeseen  events.   He  said if  the AMHS  is                                                               
successful,  this administration  will  be the  first  one in  44                                                               
years  to  have  ever  even   attempted  to  publish  a  two-year                                                               
schedule.   The primary reason  for that is two-fold,  he stated.                                                               
He said  mechanical problems  are just  a planning  problem, "you                                                               
then  have  to  have  adequate  funding.    And  every  year  the                                                               
legislature decides  what our  funding levels  are going  to be."                                                               
He noted that  the AMHS funding levels are down  $14 million from                                                               
what operations will cost next year.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:18:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAYLOR  said, "Give us  a two-year funding allocation,"  if a                                                               
two-year schedule is desired.  He  said the AMHS has had a stable                                                               
boat schedule out  of Bellingham, Prince Rupert  and the villages                                                               
for  the  last  20-plus  years.   "You  can  publish  a  two-year                                                               
schedule if  you were  to do  it by  run as  opposed to  maybe by                                                               
entire  area."   He  sent  out a  letter  requesting interest  by                                                               
architects for a  shuttle vessel.  "Whether the road  is built or                                                               
not, up Lynn Canal, that plan,  on the road plan, calls for three                                                               
shuttle ferries to  be operating out of the Katzehin  River."  He                                                               
said the  transportation plan  for Southeast  Alaska calls  for a                                                               
shuttle  whether it  departs  from Berners  Bay  or the  Katzehin                                                               
River.  Two  yards have called about specs, and  he hopes to move                                                               
forward  with  a contract  by  early  July.    "That would  be  a                                                               
dedicated vessel  probably operating in Lynn  Canal and providing                                                               
everyday service,  two or three  times a day, between  Haines and                                                               
Skagway, hopefully, eventually, between  Haines and some terminal                                                               
out  the road."   He  said he  would then  add dedicated  shuttle                                                               
vessels down the panhandle.  He said Hoonah needs such a vessel.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:20:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TAYLOR  said  it  is  going  to  take  planning  and  budget                                                               
stability to achieve  the goal of reliable  service that everyone                                                               
shares.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:21:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR ELKINS asked what wind speeds fast ferries can handle.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAYLOR said at  a wave height of six to  eight feet the ferry                                                               
becomes  uncomfortable, causing  seasickness.   He said  the boat                                                               
will seek shelter with ten-foot  waves.  Most southeasterly winds                                                               
are navigable,  except when  the tide is  in the  wrong direction                                                               
around the  point at Berners Bay.   He noted that  northern winds                                                               
delayed the boat for seven days in  Lynn Canal.  He said the slow                                                               
ferries do better in those waves.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THOMAS  spoke  of   being  on  the  LeConte  when                                                               
passengers  were sick.   He  said the  legislature pressures  the                                                               
AMHS and the unions, but it is  doing what it can, and funding is                                                               
his concern.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:24:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  spoke of  many angry public  comments that                                                               
accuse  the  ferry  system of  manipulating  schedules  to  lower                                                               
ridership in  order to turn  public opinion against the  ferry to                                                               
favor the proposed road.  He  read a comment about the difficulty                                                               
in  finding  accurate information  about  the  ferry system,  and                                                               
whether  that is  deliberate or  not.   "They go  on and  on, and                                                               
there's quite a  stack of these emails."  He  asked Mr. Taylor to                                                               
defend himself.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TAYLOR said  the levels  of frustration  are related  to how                                                               
much a community  is impacted.  He said Prince  William Sound was                                                               
assured  there  would  be  a  boat last  spring,  and  it  became                                                               
apparent the  boat was two  months late  coming out of  the yard.                                                               
He said there  were difficulties getting crew on  board, which is                                                               
controlled by the  Department of Administration.   The Aurora was                                                               
immediately dispatched to Prince William  Sound, he said, and the                                                               
fare was  reduced, which brought back  additional ridership never                                                               
seen before.  He  said the AMHS did some marketing.   "We got the                                                               
Chenega up there.   We got the training done,  but only had about                                                               
two  weeks time  within which  to operate  before we  brought her                                                               
back south."   He said the Chenega was only  scheduled to operate                                                               
four  days a  week out  of Cordova,  and instead  the Aurora  ran                                                               
seven days a week all winter long.   He said he put in a lot more                                                               
money and effort and "that  gave that community five landings and                                                               
departures a week, which was a  higher level of service than they                                                               
would have had out of Chenega but not as convenient a time."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAYLOR said  that the Prince William Sound  schedule was only                                                               
changed based on a good suggestion  by Mayor Joyce.  He said that                                                               
AMHS  is following  through  on its  commitment  for this  coming                                                               
summer,  but  the  operations  for   next  winter  "is  the  real                                                               
question"  and  dependent  on  budget.   He  said  the  AMHS  was                                                               
criticized  in  Southeast  Alaska  of having  a  "conspiracy"  of                                                               
putting in a run that wouldn't  work.  He said the administration                                                               
had  a decision  to buy  two more  boats and  where to  put them.                                                               
Under the  Southeast plan, the  boats are supposed to  go between                                                               
Ketchikan  and  Petersburg  and  Juneau.    "Shouldn't  you  know                                                               
something about  whether the boat  can operate down  there before                                                               
you buy the boat?"   He said that was the  main reason for moving                                                               
the vessel-"Can  it handle  Clarence Strait?"   He said  AMHS now                                                               
knows that in 29 runs the boat  sucked up 14 logs and damaged the                                                               
boat.   He said he  had to put  the crew  in a hotel  in Wrangell                                                               
several times  because of weather.   The governor decided  not to                                                               
move forward with the purchase of  two more vessels of that class                                                               
because  of those  problems.   He  said he  sympathizes with  the                                                               
comments.   Southeast Alaska  actually got  more service  than it                                                               
was supposed  to get last  year.   Some of that  service deprived                                                               
people of a more convenient service in Prince William Sound.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:32:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR ELKINS said that is understandable.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TAYLOR  said there  are  lessons  to  be learned  in  Prince                                                               
William  Sound.   He  said the  big boats  have  had problems  in                                                               
Whittier and Valdez  when the Aurora could not land.   Wind gusts                                                               
almost blew people off  the boat.  He said he will  find a way to                                                               
fully utilize the investments put into the boats.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:34:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[HCR 38 was held over.]                                                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects